r/news 5d ago Silver 1 Doom 1

Citing staffing issues and political climate, North Idaho hospital will no longer deliver babies


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u/StationNeat5303 5d ago edited 5d ago

This won’t be the last hospital to go. And amazingly, I’d bet no politician actually modeled out the impact this would have in their constituents.

Edit: last instead of first


u/2_Sheds_Jackson 5d ago Silver

"This will cause pain for families in your district."

"Will they change their vote?"


"Ok, then that means they are in favor of it."


u/cjandstuff 5d ago

“Why is everything in our state going to shit?”

“Uhm, Democrats and immigrants!”

“Oh, okay.”


u/Smodphan 5d ago

I’ve seen this talked about in a local town hall. People were blaming democrats and immigrants for the trouble in the district. One old lady got up and said “why are we blaming them? This is an 85% Trump district…”. That’s all she said and just walked off. The silence was great following. Those meeting were terrifying and I’m glad I don’t have to go to them any more.


u/TyrannosaurusWest 5d ago

Those meetings are insufferable; it’s turned into a formal venue for the most insufferable people within a constituency to make an absolute fool of themselves while being cheered on by their equally insufferable neighbors.


u/Rion23 5d ago Silver LOVE!

Analog Facebook


u/ConBrio93 5d ago

Town halls in my state are basically held during the weekday during regular work hours. Consequently its flooded by well off retirees who don't work, and maybe a few people who happen to hold jobs that provide PTO and that care enough to take off to attend.

If our country actually cared about democracy then voting days would be a holiday, town halls would be held over multiple sessions to accommodate people with different working schedules, etc...


u/God_Damnit_Nappa 5d ago edited 4d ago

If our country actually cared about democracy then voting days would be a holiday

People still have to work on holidays and a voting day holiday would be no exception. What should be done is universal mail in ballots, extended polling hours, and expanding the amount of polling places. As for town halls, ya there should be more sessions and it should be easier to remotely view and participate (I know a lot of cities and counties already do this but I'm not sure how many.)

Edit: I forgot to add that early voting at least a couple weeks before election day should be standard. Most states do it and most don't require a reason but it should be expanded to no reason required in all 50 states.


u/Original_Employee621 5d ago

At the very least, there's no reason why all voting must take place on a single day. You should be able to just turn up at the local council office and vote ahead of time.

But the system is made, in certain parts of the US to be as complicated and obfuscated as possible. Precisely to disenfranchise people from voting.


u/lesChaps 5d ago

At the very least, there's no reason why all voting must take place on a single day.

Oh there's a reason all right.

to disenfranchise people from voting.

And that is the reason.

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u/HiHoJufro 5d ago

This made me giggle. Then it made me sad.

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u/Galkura 5d ago

I live in the FL Panhandle. My district is the one that voted in Gaetz. Pretty much every politician here is red.

Like, literally no campaigning has to be done by them. They post a sign that says their name and then “CONSERVATIVE” (and maybe throw in the word gun or god somewhere in there) directly underneath, and they just win.

I think we’re probably close to that 85%.

Doesn’t stop them from blaming democrats for everything anyways. Just waiting until I can save and leave this shithole state.


u/Smodphan 5d ago

I grew up in MTGs district. I have to say the parallela here are stark. Like at a family dinner my aunt was complaining about criminals in cities. Listen Auntie...you're the only criminal I know. You went to jail for drugs, theft, and credit card fraud. Maybe pipe down.


u/Sweatytubesock 4d ago

She means those criminals

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u/Ethelenedreams 4d ago

My brother talks about whores and abortions while he cheated on every wife he ever had and abused every kid that they pushed out for him. Insert shrug here.

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u/simplisweet35 5d ago

They have got to learn to be honest with themselves. The Republicans are in charge, and the Republicans are making the rules. It is directly the Republicans vote. You don't see this kind of thing happening in Democrat led states.


u/tenemu 5d ago

They need someone to blame and they can’t look inwards.

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u/MatureUsername69 5d ago

We just made a law that makes all breakfast and lunch universally free at school and I'm sure I have family members calling Walz the devil for it as we speak.

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u/BCdotWHAT 5d ago

Same in the UK: Conservatives proclaiming loudly the country is going to shit, failing to notice they've been in charge for over a dozen years.

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u/Val_Hallen 5d ago

Oh, the Texas Modeltm.

Democrats haven't won a statewide election since 1994, but it's all them damn Democrat politicians there that have turned Texas to shit.


u/SomeGuyNamedPaul 5d ago

It's kinda like that time when poor people were completely and totally responsible for bringing down the entire US housing market by being offered loans that were impossible to pay down but at least provided mortgages to shred into mortgage backed securities.


u/nvrtrynvrfail 5d ago

At the least the poor people were bailed out...
...oh wait...it was the greedy dumbass banks that were bailed out...sorry about that...


u/KnottShore 5d ago

As Voltaire once noted in the 18th century:

The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor.

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u/ekaceerf 5d ago

"you shouldn't vote democract because they didn't stop us from passing this shitty legislation."


u/moleratical 5d ago

Idaho, the textbook example of a Democratic and Immigrant power center. and yet, somehow these people believe it.

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u/FiveUpsideDown 5d ago

The Republican politicians’ response will be to pass a law making it illegal for doctors to leave the state.


u/billpalto 5d ago

Yup, the Forced Birth Act, making it a crime *not* to deliver babies.


u/NorthernPints 5d ago

They sure do hate the consequences of their own actions and “free” markets.


u/ammobox 5d ago

Republicans actually just love small government and individual freedom...by using governmental powers to force people to do shit.


u/xombae 5d ago

By "small government" they really mean government that only affects the small people. They hate when the government tries to make the world safer with corporate regulations, but love when the government passes laws that inflict on an individual's rights and freedoms.


u/ohgodspidersno 5d ago edited 5d ago Gold Vibing

Copy-paste of @_EthanGrey's twitter thread about the Republican mindset:

This is a thread on Republican messaging. The press doesn’t want to have a direct conversation with you about this. So as a former Republican who is now a consistent Democratic voter, I will. Thread.

Here is the Republican message on everything of importance: 1. They can tell people what to do. 2. You cannot tell them what to do.

This often gets mistaken for hypocrisy, there’s an additional layer of complexity to this (later in the thread), but this is the basic formula.

You've watched the Republican Party champion the idea of "freedom" while you have also watched the same party openly assault various freedoms, like the freedom to vote, freedom to choose, freedom to marry who you want and so on.

If this has been a source of confusion, then your assessments of what Republicans mean by “freedom” were likely too generous. Here’s what they mean:

  1. The freedom to tell people what to do.
  2. Freedom from being told what to do.

When Republicans talk about valuing “freedom”, they’re speaking of it in the sense that only people like them should ultimately possess it.

So with this in mind, let’s examine some of our political issues with an emphasis on who is telling who what to do. And hopefully there will be no ambiguity about what the Republican Party message is ever again.

Let’s start with the COVID-19 pandemic. We were told by experts in infectious diseases that to control the spread of the pandemic, we had to socially distance, mask, and get vaccinated. So, in a general sense, we were being told what to do. Guess who had a big problem with that.

All Republicans saw were certain people trying to tell them what to do, which was enough of a reason to make it their chief priority to insist that they will not be told what to do. Even though what they were told to do could save lives, including their own.

As you can see, this is a very stunning commitment to refusing to be told what to do. So much so that it is not in fact “pro-life.” But Republicans will nevertheless claim to be the “pro-life” party. That is because they recognize “pro-life” can be used to tell people what to do.

The reason they say they are “pro-life” when they are trying to tell women what to do with their bodies is not out of genuine concern for human life, but because they recognize that in this position, they can tell women what to do with their bodies.

That’s why when you use that same appeal—“pro-life”—when you ask Republicans to do something about gun violence in schools, it doesn’t work. Because you are now in the position of telling Republicans what to do. That’s precisely why they don’t want to do anything about it.

Anyway, gun violence in schools is not a problem, but their children having to wear masks in schools is. Because somebody is telling their children what to do. Dead children don’t bother them, but telling their children what to do? Only they should do that.

They claim to be for “small government”, but that really means a government that tells them what to do should be as small as possible. But when the Republican Party recognizes it has an opportunity to tell people what to do, the government required for that tends to be large.

The reason Republicans are so focused on the border isn’t because they care about border security, it’s because they recognize it as the most glaring example of when they can tell other people what to do. That's why it’s their favorite issue.

You want in? Too bad. Get out.

As you can see, this is a very toxic relationship with the idea of who can tell who what to do. So much so that it seems like the entire point is to conceive of a “right” kind of people who can tell other people what to do without being told what to do. Yep, that’s the point.

So let’s add one more component to the system for who tells who what to do:

  1. There are “right” human beings and there are "wrong" ones.
  2. The “right” ones get to tell the “wrong” ones what to do.
  3. The “wrong” ones do not tell the “right” ones what to do.

As you can see, I've just been talking about white male supremacy and the accompanying caste system structure it enforces all along. And I'm talking about this because the message of the Republican Party is that they quite like it.

But I realize that we are operating in an environment where white male supremacy is so entrenched that the press can’t even conceive of the Republican Party’s agenda of sorting the “right” human beings from the “wrong” ones as maybe presenting a “messaging problem.”

This is because the press has chosen to accommodate the Republican Party in a very specific way:

  1. It normalizes the Republican agenda.
  2. It normalizes framing the responsibility for stopping that agenda as ultimately being on Democrats.

Think about it: white supremacy is not allowed to be viewed as a “messaging problem.” Even when it’s a threat to democracy. Because if it’s a “messaging problem”, to Republicans, that sounds you're telling them that's a problem they have to solve.

Anyway, I made this thread mostly because I realize that the press has a "messaging problem." Namely, in the sense that they seem extremely averse to explicitly identifying the message of the Republican Party. It's called white male supremacy. Thanks for reading.

/copypasta. I don't want to link to twitter but original author is @_EthanGrey

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u/Eeeegah 5d ago edited 5d ago

I'm tangentially related to the medical industry (I'm an EMT, and my sister is a medical director at the VA), and I've kind of been watching this slow wave of hospital failure building up over the past several years, especially in rural areas. Maternity care is for the most part profitable. Sure, the GQP loves harping on the image of welfare moms having 43 kids, but the reality is that most maternity care is young couples with jobs and health insurance starting a family who pay their bills, so ending maternity care in a hospital in Idaho will hit their bottom line. Will it cause the whole shebang to fold? I'm not sure - this was an immediate decision I'm sure based upon fears of lawsuits which would cause a quick demise, but that doesn't mean this isn't the first foundation cracks that will kill it five or ten years out.


u/Aleriya 5d ago

most maternity care is young couples with jobs and health insurance

This can vary regionally. Nationally, about 40% of people who give birth are on Medicaid, but in some areas it can be much higher or lower. Medicaid reimbursement is less than private insurance, which means maternity care in poor areas isn't profitable, but maternity care in richer areas can be quite profitable. That's one reason why there is a trend of maternity wards in low-income rural areas shutting down.


u/3_letter_username 5d ago

My god, there isn't a better pro choice, sex ed, free contraceptive argument to be made than 40% of all children born are to people in or bordering poverty.


u/dust4ngel 5d ago

poverty means easy to exploit means profits means america

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u/Nvenom8 5d ago

I’d bet no politician actually modeled out the impact this would have in their constituents.

Why would they? They don't give a fuck. This was never about making anything better for anyone.

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u/Nbk420 5d ago

They don’t give a fuck. Kickbacks from corporate overlords won’t stop just because the constituents are suffering.


u/Mysterious-Book2146 5d ago

They also can blame the other side, and a large amount of their base won't fact check it.


u/Nbk420 5d ago

They eat it up. They thrive off that shit.


u/trogon 5d ago

They're OK with killing a few mothers to own the libs.

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u/ThickerSalmon14 5d ago

A state could be totally controlled by the GOP and they would still be blaming the Dems for everything that went wrong. Case in point Florida. Base GOP voters appear to be sheep fed on hatred.

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u/sentinelk9 5d ago Silver Gold Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Bravo Grande! Wearing is Caring Brighten My Day Baby Snoo

It's worse than it seems

As an ER doc here's what will happen: the patients will still show up to the ER in labor and we will have to deliver them as you can't(reasonably) transfer a patient in labor.

So they'll be delivered by doctors who aren't trained to deliver in high risk situations, in an environment not designed for high risk deliveries, now with no system left to back them up when everything goes down the tubes (speaking from experience doing high risk deliveries).

People won't stop having babies, they'll just have worse outcomes now. The idea that they will magically find their way to a hospital system capable of doing it safely is laughable

This is why politicians and courts shouldn't decide medical care. Doctors should. Because, you know, that's what we are fucking trained to do.

Have the politicians come in and deliver the babies if they claim to know so much

Or better yet, sue the politicians(instead of the doctor or hospital) when there is a bad outcome - because they are the ones that caused it


u/iopihop 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

This is why politicians and courts shouldn't decide medical care

can you add insurance companies and admins to this list as well? Seems they are completely driven by finances vs. the health of people.


u/sentinelk9 5d ago

100% that's another thing that gets my blood pressure up. Topic for a different post!


u/gakule 4d ago

Hey doc, high blood pressure is bad for you.

This is not medical advice!

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u/Mathematic-Ian 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote Starry

I grew up just outside this town. I have been treated at this hospital, I know people who were delivered in this hospital. It barely has an ER. The actual year-round residents in this area are overwhelmingly below the poverty line. The nearest hospital isn’t just an hour away, it’s an hour away on curvy two-lane highways that get entirely snowed or frozen over during a good five months out of the year. There is a bridge that bottlenecks the only route out of town to that other hospital, and car wrecks on it will regularly shut down traffic for hours.

My stomach fucking dropped when I saw the hospital name. People are going to die. People I know are going to die. Fuck this


u/hollyjazzy 4d ago

It really sounds as though politicians in some states hate women and children, with this kind of behaviour. I really feel for anyone in this town.

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u/floandthemash 5d ago

NICU RN and this was my first thought as well


u/Syd_Vicious3375 5d ago

The nurses in my delivery room were the absolute heroes of my day. They kept me focused and calm. They led me and I followed them to the finish line. I can’t imagine going in scared to death and having nobody suitably trained to ground me.


u/MacAttacknChz 5d ago

As an ER nurse, we are not internally calm in situations with pregnancy and delivery. We do our best to be outwardly calm, but that's a situation that sends us into panic. We usually deal with labor by wheeling patients upstairs to the L&D wing as fast as possible. And it's not just the nurses. The majority of my arguments with physicians (I don't like to argue bc we're all on the same team) has been regarding pregnant or postpartum patients, especially ones whose pain was not taken seriously.


u/DigitalPelvis 5d ago

It was amazing to me how little the ER doc I saw after my first pregnancy knew about pregnancy/postpartum. I was discharged four days after a c-section, and went back two days after that with a 102 fever. ER doc had no clue what pain meds I could have, what impact any of it might have on breastfeeding…I was very thankful when my OB turned out to be the one on call that might.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 5d ago

My sister was low risk on both pregnancies. No warning signs. All good. Easy pregnancy.

My nephew had low Apgar tests when he was born and was generally... not good. High bilirubin, flopped when arms and legs were picked up, etc. Ended up in NICU because of generally not thriving.

He would've been fine long enough to transfer to a NICU, had he been born somewhere without one. He's turning 16 in a week. Dude is already like 6'2". Big kid.

But, other babies wouldn't have been just fine. They wouldn't have had time to find a NICU and be turning 16 in a week and be an unending punk of a kid. There was no warning signs that he wasn't going to be fine before he wasn't. Everything up until then was good.

People won't know things are going wrong until it is going wrong. Going to end awfully for kids that aren't as lucky as my nephew that he had a great NICU on staff and even if he hadn't - he wasn't an all-out emergency from minute one.

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u/LilRach05 5d ago

Also the folks who can get care in neighboring areas will put a heavier burden on those areas and cause delays in care and worse outcomes in those areas as well

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u/teenagesadist 5d ago

I'm not really sure what those politicians should do, because it ain't doctoring, and it sure as hell ain't politicking.

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u/PsilocybeApe 5d ago

For context, that area of North Idaho has terrible winters and worse roads. The article says it’s a 45 minute drive to the next hospital (in CDA). But that’s hospital to hospital. Bonner General serves the entire county and most of the adjacent northern county. Some people will have to drive 2-3 hours on snowy, dirt roads while in labor.


u/Kiki_Deco 5d ago

I wondered about that drive estimate, but even 45 minutes is a long drive when I labor trying to get to medical care.

I hope this doesn't see the loss of life from this but unfortunately I think we will.


u/george2597 5d ago

It's even worse than 45 minutes. The article states the next hospital is 46 miles, not 46 minutes.


u/datpiffss 5d ago

Unless you’re on the highway the entire way, 46 miles in 45 minutes is verrry different.


u/Tom22174 5d ago

and we are talking about a winter conditions worst case scenario so even on the highway that's an unachievable timeframe.

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u/SandManic42 5d ago edited 5d ago

If you live in Sandpoint or Priest River, CDA is probably closest to you. It's about an hour drive in good conditions. In snow and ice it could definitely take 2-3 hours.

Edit: Spokane is going to be closer for some, but even that drive took me almost an hour to get to a hospital from Priest River, and I was going over 100 to get there.


u/thisismyaccount57 5d ago

I think Newport WA has a hospital that is only 10-15 from Priest River. Probably "out of network" for most people living in ID though because our healthcare system is a joke. Why guarantee healthcare to citizens when it will hurt the United Health and Cigna shareholders? Only about 45,000 people die in the US every year due to lack of basic healthcare availability, but David Cordani (Cigna CEO) makes 20 million dollars per year. These people have blood on their hands and don't give a fuck because they get rich.

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u/RebornPastafarian 5d ago

Spokane is closer, but will an out-of-state hospital be in their insurance network?

Gosh I love the american healthcare system.


u/KiniShakenBake 5d ago

Active labour is considered an emergency and I believe there are ACA rules about requiring that the bill be considered in-network for cost share when treating an actual emergency or one for which the patient is admitted.

So three laws at the federal level govern hospitals and health plans in labour and delivery services and payment obligations: the hospital cannot turn away a mother in active labour, period, if they are an emergency room, because labour is an emergency under ACA.

Because labour is an emergency, the ACA also prohibits insurance companies from charging more for out of network hospitals and the surprise billing act prevents the hospital from billing the parents more for their time there.

And because the patient delivered in a hospital, they are now considered under the federal law protecting their right to a 48 hour stay, which could happen at an in-network hospital once they are stable but cannot be denied, nor charged at a higher rate than the delivery portion.

So... It is patchwork but seems to say that your concern is irrelevant under federal law.

For federal law concerning newborns and mothers: https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Programs-and-Initiatives/Other-Insurance-Protections/nmhpa_factsheet

For ACA and the access and use of out of network emergency rooms: https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/doctor-choice-emergency-room-access/

And the fact that active labour and delivery is an emergency and the newly.born infant is also entitled to emergency care until stable: https://www.cms.gov/Outreach-and-Education/Medicare-Learning-Network-MLN/MLNMattersArticles/downloads/SE19012.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiC54Hoy-j9AhXLJUQIHS_8AWAQFnoECAUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1PbM5994BDnf-h7rUZHz5t

And this one sorta pulls it all together. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ebsa/about-ebsa/our-activities/resource-center/faqs/nmhpa.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiWg56qzej9AhVIBzQIHZoMAf44FBAWegQIIBAB&usg=AOvVaw3Vw2jbpG0_bV8_AmISwCG1

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u/royalsanguinius 5d ago

America already has an atrociously high childbirth mortality rate for a developed country, and it’s probably even worse as is in rural places like this (just a guess on my part so don’t take that at face value please), and decisions like this will absolutely make that even worse.


u/meatball77 5d ago

The maternal mortality rate in the US is really interesting if you take each state as a country. California's is similar to European countries while Mississippi on the other hand. . . .

I saw an article somewhere that put it all in a graph (haven't been able to find it since)

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u/george2597 5d ago

Minor correction. The article says 46 miles, not minutes. Likely much much longer than 45 minutes especially during winter months.


u/PsilocybeApe 5d ago

I grew up in Idaho schools. Me don’t read to good


u/george2597 5d ago

No worries. Utah myself sadly, so I don't think I got it much better.

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u/spovax 5d ago

And the. They’ll be at a cda hospital with the same problems. More likely they’ll be transferred to Spokane, surprise in Washington, which is about 1.5 hospital to hospital.


u/PsilocybeApe 5d ago

WA has to subsidize ID in so many ways…


u/evergleam498 5d ago

Washington should set up a toll road at the border crossing.


u/profigliano 5d ago

Idahoans also come over here to buy our legal weed so they'd be big mad

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u/trogon 5d ago

Yep. We had to bail them out during COVID, too.

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u/Melancholy_Rainbows 5d ago

Dr. Amelia Huntsberger, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Bonner General Health, said in an email to States Newsroom that she will soon leave the hospital and the state because of the abortion laws as well as the Idaho Legislature’s decision not to continue the state’s maternal mortality review committee.

So not only are they increasing the risk of maternal death, they’re going to cover their eyes and plug their ears so they have a pretense of not knowing why.


u/theseanbeag 5d ago

In Ireland, our abortion laws led to the death of a young lady because doctors thought they'd be breaking the law to perform one. Can't imagine being put in that kind of position.


u/Melancholy_Rainbows 5d ago

For those unfamiliar with this story, here's a Wikipedia article about it.

The funny-sad thing about this is I've had forced birthers actually argue it wasn't the lack of access to an abortion that killed her.


u/Galaxy_Ranger_Bob 5d ago

The funny-sad thing about this is I've had forced birthers actually argue it wasn't the lack of access to an abortion that killed her.

I've had people from the anti-abortion crowd say, too my face, that the woman deserved it.


u/AWrenchAndTwoNuts 5d ago

I have found that those particular people also have a face that not only screams, but screams to be punched.

Everyone has a limit and these people like pushing and pushing and pushing.

Then they are absolutely shocked when they push too far and get a bloody lip.

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u/Neravariine 5d ago

Qualified medical staff are leaving the state. Women will attempt to just give birth at home or be forced to(even run to dangerous FB mom groups that say don't get induced even if you've been pregnant for 10 months). Potential complications may kill the mother and child or lead to the child developing life-long disabilities. These children will be seen as "burdens" on the state and cost more to take care of.

Politicians who claim to want to not want people being a drain on the system end up just creating more. And quick disclaimer these children are people and deserve support to be the best they can be. I'm writing this post in an extra cynical way because that is how those same politicians think of people.


u/thereisnodevil666 5d ago

They're trying to make fucking meningitis and HPV vaccines illegal to enforce or suggest in schools too alongside a bunch of medications QAnon can find insane theories about. Way more layers of horrible health outcomes created by elected subhumans than just pregnancy related stuff happening in these GOP run shitholes. They are an actual threat to quality of life for all of humanity.


u/THE_CODE_IS_0451 5d ago

They're a death cult. They think the Rapture is coming and they're trying to accelerate to it.

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u/TheRealOneTwo 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

cost more to take care of.

Not if Republicans have anything to say about it. Once you are born they don't give a shit about you


u/BoneHugsHominy 5d ago

Coming Soon: Red States packing disabled children and orphans on planes and dumping them in Martha's Vineyard.

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u/co_lund 5d ago

More "burdens" on the state mean more under-educated and desperate cogs for the machine.

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u/billpalto 5d ago Bravo Grande!

"highly respected, talented physicians are leaving the state, and recruiting replacements will be “extraordinarily difficult.”"

The rabid politicians in Idaho are in charge of health care now. Talented physicians are leaving the state.

Heckuva job!


u/nonprofitnews 5d ago

This American Life interviewed an OBGYN from this exact hospital just a few weeks ago and she laid out how difficult her life had become. How she loved her job and her community but just couldn't find a way forward. It ended on a bit of a cliffhanger but it sounds like she decided to quit after all.


u/JBupp 5d ago

Yes, she did.

Dr. Amelia Huntsberger, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Bonner General Health, said in an email to States Newsroom that she will soon leave the hospital and the state because of the abortion laws as well as the Idaho Legislature’s decision not to continue the state’s maternal mortality review committee.

“What a sad, sad state of affairs for our community,” Huntsberger wrote.


u/fighterpilottim 5d ago

They banned abortion AND stopped reporting on maternal mortality? They’re trying to hide the impact of the abortion ban. I shouldn’t be surprised, but that small part of me that still assumes people are fundamentally honest gets me more than it should.


u/Rubberbabybuggybum 5d ago

Kansas put abortion on the ballot and it was approved in a landslide.

They know this “policy” and I use that word loosely, is pure bullshit.

But their evangelical base fucking LOVES this shit.


u/fighterpilottim 5d ago

Kansas will never put anything to the popular vote again after that one. Too bad.

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u/sst287 5d ago

“If you don’t counted the dead moms, there is no dead moms…”


u/theAlpacaLives 5d ago Take My Energy

One party has decided it is unpatriotic to allow any investigation, data-keeping, or accurate reporting on any problems that make us look bad. That same party also loves talking about how the other party is "sticking their heads in the sand." We're such a bunch of idiots.

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u/ChasmDude 5d ago

We talk so much lately about authoritarianism appearing in the censoring of cultural products like books, but prohibitions on gathering data and doing rigorous research in the name of understanding public policy issues is almost as scary.


u/Bwob 5d ago

Okay, but in their defense, rigorous data gathering and analysis makes almost all of their policy positions look really really bad.

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u/MelancholyMushroom 5d ago

That’s ok. Churches can pick up the slack. No more hospitals? Let Gods zealots pick up the slack… join your local cult today for “protection” and guidance.


u/tripwire7 5d ago

I remember talking to a pastor online with this very view. He was against abortion, but also against providing government healthcare to expectant mothers. His reasoning was “You think government is the only solution. I’m saying it’s not,“ then gave an example of his church providing for an unmarried pregnant woman who needed help.

So I asked him if churches could provide healthcare for all uninsured pregnant women, then why weren’t they doing that already? He had no answer.


u/64645 5d ago

That sounds like insurance with extra steps.

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u/reefer-madness 5d ago edited 5d ago

These 'protectors of life' should put their faith where there mouth is and shadow mid-wives. Watch how fast their face sinks when they have to deal with stillborn fetuses, women who are crying and bleeding profusely or on the verge of death themselves. Teach them how their beliefs cherish one life and neglect another.


u/XBacklash 5d ago

Ooh, lost another one? Should have prayed harder.

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u/Chumphy 5d ago edited 4d ago

Pretty much it. Then there’s going to be nothing but “mid-wives”, “doulas”, and an increased child mortality rate.

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u/MegBundy 5d ago

I just listened to that yesterday. She sounded like a cool person and a talented doctor. They really fucked it up if she decided to leave.


u/Saneless 5d ago

And that's just one leaving. Others won't even begin their career there

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u/JoshDigi 5d ago

I thought of that episode too. She knows there will eventually be no decent doctors left in red states like Idaho


u/corran450 5d ago

No teachers either. All according to plan.

“Some of you may die, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.” -GOP

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u/WalkingCloud 5d ago

People may assume they’re just leaving as some kind of protest. However what was interesting from that episode was that one of the main personal concerns (e.g. aside from the added danger to their patients) was actually how difficult it was to avoid breaking the law simply through doing their job.

The laws are so broadly [poorly] written that until the courts set some precedents through lawsuits/prosecutions, nobody really knows exactly where the lines are procedurally. And naturally, nobody wants to be the one finding out through being prosecuted as part of the precedent setting court cases.

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u/RevB1983 5d ago

Are these the death panels the Republicans were warning about all those years back?


u/MechaSandstar 5d ago

2008 republicans: they want you to die, grandma!

2023 republicans: we want you to die, grandma.


u/sllop 5d ago

Don’t forget 2020.

Makes this look basic

“People want to die for the economy” or whatever the fuck that shitheal said


u/mjohnsimon 5d ago

More like "If Granny has to die for the economy, then so be it!"


u/plipyplop 5d ago

"Look, all I ask is for you to sacrifice for my benefit. Ok?"


u/uptoke 5d ago

For the benefit of society, right?

No, no, just a handful of people with already exorbitant wealth.

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u/iamquitecertain 5d ago

"Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"

You know your side is bad when it's unironically more evil than a satirically evil cartoon character

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u/BuddhaFacepalmed 5d ago

Also, "Who cares if children get sick?! It's not like Covid is bad for children??"

The children:

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) is a serious condition in which some parts of the body — such as the heart, lungs, blood vessels, kidneys, digestive system, brain, skin or eyes — become severely inflamed. Evidence indicates that many of these children were infected with the COVID-19 virus in the past, as shown by positive antibody test results, suggesting that MIS-C is caused by an excessive immune response related to COVID-19.

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u/xylem-and-flow 5d ago

I just listened to a This American Life episode (792 “when to leave”) that amongst other stories, talked about physicians trying to determine when they could no longer practice with patient’s best care in mind, and when they themselves had to leave the state they practice in. Great/sad listen.


u/-Ernie 5d ago

Another poster up thread noted that episode was about this exact hospital and maybe the same doctor.

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u/Green-Umpire2297 5d ago

I would not want to be an obstetrician in any of these states. I would leave for sure. Even if I wasn’t respected or talented.

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u/fuzzywolf23 5d ago edited 5d ago

California will gladly hire each and every one of them. We've got some rural towns they would feel right at home in that need doctors, too


u/jerm-warfare 5d ago

Same here in Oregon and we won't tell you how to do your job. Plenty of beautiful rural areas just like Idaho for a small town doctor to love.


u/DerpyDaDulfin 5d ago

Bro you're telling me. As a Californian who is visiting my mom in Eugene I swear this town is a slice of paradise.

Incredible food, cozy rural communities surrounding the city, and a deeply nerdy counterculture. Pretty sure I'ma move here.

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u/Don_Quixote81 5d ago

Wait, so you're saying educated people might leave if state governments enact imbecilic laws? Who could have predicted this?


u/Nemeris117 5d ago

Even more so, it was already difficult to entice doctors/highly trained professionals to move to and live in these ass backwards red states to begin with.

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u/OldJournalist4 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Shockingly, health care providers are fleeing a state that proposed making administration of a vaccine a crime

Who could have seen this coming?


u/Wurm42 5d ago

The doctors don't have much choice. The national standards of care haven't changed. If right-wing state legislators require doctors to deviate from those standards of care, the docs are risking malpractice lawsuits and even losing their licenses if they keep practicing in that state.

If Idaho thinks it's bad now, wait a year. When malpractice insurance comes up for renewal, Idaho doctors will find that the price has skyrocketed, or it's just not available for their specialties in Idaho anymore. That will force docs to close their practices and move out of state.


u/Snapingbolts 5d ago Gold

I can already hear right wing talking heads screeching about how "woke" malpractice insurance has become.


u/Jd771 5d ago

I hate this comment for how realistic it is.

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u/Wurm42 5d ago

Yeah, that fits. These days, "Woke" is anything MAGA Republicans don't like.


u/Lily_Loud_Cat 5d ago


u/Enthused_Llama 5d ago

noooooooo she defined it later on Twitter pls stop making fun of hererrrr

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u/AldoTheeApache 5d ago

“If you think CRT is bad, wait till you hear about CPR!”

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u/KingLeo23 5d ago

Yeah so go against standard of care = civil liability, perform standard of care = criminal liability. What fucking idiots do you suspect to continue to work in this environment?


u/Prophet_of_Entropy 5d ago

the conservatives expect faith based healers to step in and fill the void, that and the rich can always travel to get the best healthcare, they always have. and if god loved you, youd be rich, so the suffering is your fault.

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u/me_again 5d ago

Idaho has made a number of treatments a felony. No amount of malpractice insurance will keep doctors out of jail if a sufficiently aggressive and stupid DA wants to make an example of them, and they know that.

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u/defaulthtm 5d ago

Nurses need to carry malpractice insurance as well. Labor and Delivery nurses particularly. Nurses will follow the doctors out of the state. It’s too easy to switch to travel nursing and make large amounts of money compared to staff nurses.

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u/MrT-Man 5d ago

“a person may not provide or administer a vaccine developed using messenger ribonucleic acid technology for use in an individual or any other mammal in this state.” lol


u/mt-beefcake 5d ago

The sad part is, they don't even know what any of that means. Like how the fuck has politics come to this? Also I'm sure when the vac came out, the people responsible for this bill got it before anyone else had the oppurtunity. Ffs it's maddening.

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u/TerribleGramber_Nazi 5d ago

As a lib, I feel so owned right now


u/ofAFallingEmpire 5d ago

If you were a lib in Idaho, you likely would.


u/darth_tater_breath 5d ago

Idaho lib here :( it sucks because the crazy politics is literally getting worse because imports from California, Texas, and elsewhere are way more extreme than our local variety of conservative... being a lcol state, we are being overrun, and it's not sustainable. I sincerely fear this states future tbh.


u/silverwillowgirl 5d ago

Oof I'm sorry. Californian here, and indeed my most racist conservative relatives were the ones that decided to take off to Idaho.


u/codeByNumber 5d ago

This is why my eyes almost roll out of my head when people in conservative states say shit like “The commiefornians are flooding the state and bringing their politics with them!”

Except the people “fleeing” ca to move to these red states are more conservative than the locals.

So ya, I guess they are bringing their politics with them. Just not the ones they think.

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u/bandit69 5d ago

It's interesting to wonder if the administrators are that stupid or just that cruel.


u/rhoduhhh 5d ago

Lived in Idaho for 18 years. The answer is "Yes."

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u/DragonPup 5d ago

Idaho has one of the most restrictive abortion bans in the country, with affirmative defenses in court only for documented instances of rape, incest or to save the pregnant person’s life. Physicians are subject to felony charges and the revocation of their medical license for violating the statute, which the Idaho Supreme Court determined is constitutional in January.

Wow, I cannot figure out why doctors and nurses don't want to work in Idaho.


u/edgar_alan_bro 5d ago

I was hearing the this American Life Episode on this specific thing so even though it says "documented instances", yes theree are exemptions where the doctor has to document exactly what's happening for the exception but then they have to to in front of a court in a trial to prove to a jury that what they did was not an illegal abortion. So they have to take their chances that someone on that jury can somehow know enough basic medical concepts to not find them guilt of an abortion.


u/Pour_Me_Another_ 5d ago

And they have to do that for every occasion they have to provide that care. Easier to move to a state that allows the practice of medicine.

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u/yhwhx 5d ago

I can't see how increasing the number of women who die during childbirth is pro-life...


u/bandit69 5d ago

As much as they like to claim, they are NOT pro life, they're just anti-abortion. Once the kid is born they don't care at all. Money to help poor children? Not on my watch!


u/jelloslug 5d ago

They don't even care enough to make sure the mother is taken care of properly during pregnancy. All they care about is forcing their will.

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u/ExpensiveSwordfish65 5d ago

Because it's not about life or death, it's about control. Often but not exclusive using cruelty. The next time your stumped by the gop try looking at your boggle through that lens.

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u/FlashpointJ24 5d ago

"Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice that I'm willing to make!"

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u/padizzledonk 5d ago

Bonkers Red States are seeing a massive "Brain Drain" as predicted, the same way Iran experienced when the Religious crazies took over that country

Why would anyone stay there when they can go elsewhere and practice medicine properly and not risk the death penalty or life in prison for saving a woman's life when she has pregnancy complications

The Bible thumpers will get the reference--- You reap what you sow 🤷‍♂️

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u/MissTeeny27 5d ago

The government: Why aren’t women having babies? We need population replacement to support the older generations

Also government: we’re going to criminalize OBGYN’s and make childbirth more dangerous


u/Modern_Bear 5d ago edited 5d ago

The release also said highly respected, talented physicians are leaving the state, and recruiting replacements will be “extraordinarily difficult.”

Idaho has one of the most restrictive abortion bans in the country, with affirmative defenses in court only for documented instances of rape, incest or to save the pregnant person’s life. Physicians are subject to felony charges and the revocation of their medical license for violating the statute, which the Idaho Supreme Court determined is constitutional in January.

“The Idaho Legislature continues to introduce and pass bills that criminalize physicians for medical care nationally recognized as the standard of care,” the hospital’s news release said. “Consequences for Idaho physicians providing the standard of care may include civil litigation and criminal prosecution, leading to jail time or fines.”

Dr. Amelia Huntsberger, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Bonner General Health, said in an email to States Newsroom that she will soon leave the hospital and the state because of the abortion laws as well as the Idaho Legislature’s decision not to continue the state’s maternal mortality review committee.

“What a sad, sad state of affairs for our community,” Huntsberger wrote.

Working as intended, Republicans? Your fascist laws are not only ruining the lives of women who need abortions, they also are ruining the availability of healthcare for parents who aren't looking for an abortion at all. You people are a bunch of useless idiots that ruin everything you touch. Your states are becoming increasingly poor and ignorant.

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u/zwaaa 5d ago Silver

Well done conservatives. Deliver your own babies. Bootstraps.


u/Suspicious-Wombat 5d ago

Don’t worry. They also got rid of the state’s maternal mortality review committee. So nobody will know about all the women that Idaho conservatives kill.

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u/d_e_l_u_x_e 5d ago

Don’t worry they’ll just change medical licensing to allow Christian midwives to be doctors and deliver babies.


u/lotusblossom60 5d ago

They are allowing anyone to become teachers in Florida!


u/DicmoVolant 5d ago

My wife has literally been working with new graduate PA's that did their rotations remotely, on stuffed animals. This is often the first job they get and many of them have never actually touched a patient before. Not joking one bit.


u/ankisaves 5d ago

Absolutely terrifying.

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u/d_e_l_u_x_e 5d ago

Exactly they used this strategy before.

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u/Mythosaurus 5d ago

That’s always the conservative goal: eliminate standards and regulations for publicly provided services, and allow the wealthy to simply PAY for quality care.

The wealthy will always have access to good schools, healthcare, clean water, and other signifiers of high status life. And the poor will be given rugged capitalism in the form of whatever they can scrounge up the nickels and dimes to afford.

And the cost savings of eliminating social safety nets will of course be passed on as tax breaks for the wealthy donors.

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u/red_sutter 5d ago

Time to call up the midwife and have wifey drop trou in the barn and hope she doesn’t bleed to death, just like the good ole days!

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u/grtgingini 5d ago

What I foresee coming in these red states with medical care deserts…. Women will be now getting pregnant and having babies at home with zero support but a friend nearby… All in the name of Christ because that’s how the Women did it back then


u/banditx19 5d ago

Republicans want Handmaid’s Tale. I’m not sure why anyone would ever vote red.

Edit: in the name of Christ!

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u/letsgoridingyall 5d ago

Good doctors in red states are leaving the ob/gyn profession in droves. Mine, in Texas, shut their doors. That Idaho has decided not to track maternal mortality rates any longer should frighten women everywhere.

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u/coswoofster 5d ago

Imagine a woman in serious distress and the doctor no longer has the freedom to recommend proper care where mom and/or baby could die and efficient decision making is necessary and appropriate. I wouldn’t deliver babies either.


u/b0nk3r00 5d ago

theocracies are shitholes most people don’t want to live in, reason #7493

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u/Tophertanium 5d ago Eureka!

Take away abortion rights, raise the price of EVERYTHING, take away confidence in the police, raise rents/interest rates, increase education costs, cut social programs, threaten entitlements and then freak out that people are stopping having children?

What did they think would happen? Why bring children into a world where there is minimal chance to the supposed pursuit of happiness?


u/PrickReborn 5d ago

They are making their voters desperate and angry. They know that they'll direct their ire on whoever the Republican party blames for this later.

This is Weimar Germany. These people are your fucking enemies, don't get it confused.

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u/Goofygrrrl 5d ago

ER physician here, this is only going to get worse. The OB/GYN training programs in red states are now woefully out of compliance for training. These are procedures that resident physicians must know how to do. So your going to see fewer and fewer physicians willing to train in these areas and subsequently will never set down roots in these areas. Blue states are not going to be able to accept these physicians as they don’t have the required training in their field. No physicians wants to be 400k in debt and now be geographically restricted to only work in certain areas. We’re going to see significant changes in the entire medical system. The OB/GYN field is going to be turned over to non physician providers with lower standards of care and no recourse for patients harmed by malpractice. We are also seeing medical society’s refusing to hold conferences and testing events in these states, as pregnant participants do not feel safe visiting these states. These changes happening now will impact these communities for decades and these patients for generations.

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u/EdLesliesBarber 5d ago

This is happening in a lot of Midwest and southern small states but it’s coming soon to Ohio and Florida. Soon after Texas.


u/code_archeologist 5d ago

Because it's not like OB-GYN's can't find jobs elsewhere. There is a nationwide shortage in the specialty and hospitals in more accommodating places will be more than happy to pay competitive salaries for an experienced practitioner.


u/Kwyjibo08 5d ago

I’m sure that woman mentioned in the article can move 1hr to Spokane and get paid way better and not have to worry about getting arrested for doing her job.

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u/thereisnodevil666 5d ago

Yup. Obvious predictable repercussions. If you are a doctor who at any point might need to deal with a dangerous or child pregnancy or even prescribe a drug for anything that has miscarriage as a potential side effect, a few cases of insurance blocking prescriptions for non pregnant women based on that already, why the hell would you continue working in a state whose DAs would love to go after you?

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u/Phreakiture 5d ago

I heard this morning that Hampshire College in Amherst, MA is offering admission to students in good standing at Florida's New College, and matching tuition. Their out-of-state tuition is normally $54k, so this is a steep discount.

I also hear that SUNY Binghamton (That's State University of New York for those not from NY state) is working on a plan to court New College students, also. I expect more to follow.

The brain drain of Florida is under way.

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u/sanslumiere 5d ago

Why any OB would want to practice in a place where they can't use the entire scope of their training to prevent unnecessarily suffering and death is beyond me.


u/The_Fry 5d ago edited 5d ago

Honestly we should all be preparing for a collapse of healthcare. My wife works at a hospital and they can’t “find anyone to work there” while demanding rotating 12 hour shifts of 3 days on 1 day off, working every 4th weekend, and having to cover empty 2nd and 3rd shifts at other physical locations, all for an easy $40k per year.

Or you can work 5 6am to 1pm shifts with a 12 hour 3rd shift every 3rd weekend. Of course you only get differential for time spent on 3rd, not for having a shitty rotation.

Even worse, people already there are grandfathered into traditional shifts and single specializations, whereas anyone new gets the shit shifts and triple specialization.

“We can’t find anyone so we’re going to increase number of shifts for everyone to pick up for the same pay”

“Why is everyone quitting!?”

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u/N1ckS4ss 5d ago Gold

An Open Letter To Whom It May Concern:

A week from today Idaho’s Total Abortion Ban takes effect. I don’t care what your thoughts are on abortion, but I do think it’s important for you to understand the implications of this bill.

The language of the bill prohibits the termination of any ‘clinically diagnosable pregnancy’ from the moment the egg is fertilized, except in the instances of rape and incest (with a police report), or the death of the mother.

My wife has a history of ectopic pregnancy. This is a when a fertilized egg implants outside of the uterus. It is not a viable pregnancy. It will never result in a human life. It could, however, cost a woman hers.

As a ‘clinically diagnosable pregnancy’ this would not be treated by a doctor in Idaho until she is knocking on deaths door. Irreparable damage to her body is likely and they may not even be able to save her life if she is forced to wait.

The fact is modern medicine has made the idea of a woman dying due to complications from pregnancy less likely. Taking away preventative care changes that.

I refuse to put a life at risk for something that could never be and today I am headed to ensure we aren’t ever put in that position.

When the the overturning of Roe triggered Idaho’s law to take effect, I immediately called my urologist and scheduled a vasectomy. I won’t play politics with my wife’s life. -Nicksass 8.19.22


u/alilheavyT 5d ago

I’m a 25 year old female who has lived in Idaho my entire life. When they overturned Roe, I got my tubes tied a month later. Did I 100% think this was the right choice for me? Maybe not. Did I feel like this was the only choice? Yes. Both my grandmother and my mother had extremely dangerous, almost deadly, pregnancies, and I would have the same risks.

It’s not that we don’t want families, it’s that our lives are at risk if we do. I think it’s brave as fuck you made that choice, because I had to make mine to make sure I lived past 30 if pregnancy ever came my way.

This state is not pro life. It’s anti woman, anti choice, and anti family.

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u/JBupp 5d ago

“The Idaho Legislature continues to introduce and pass bills that criminalize physicians for medical care nationally recognized as the standard of care,” the hospital’s news release said. “Consequences for Idaho physicians providing the standard of care may include civil litigation and criminal prosecution, leading to jail time or fines.”


u/[deleted] 5d ago


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u/LMGooglyTFY 5d ago Bravo Grande!

Hold it in and take it elsewhere ladies.

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u/Mutapi 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

This American Life recently aired a story highlighting this issue. It featured an OBGYN struggling with how she provides care and whether to leave Idaho due to the dangerous and restrictive women’s health laws being put in place, like some of her colleagues. I believe it’s Chapter 3 of the broadcast/ podcast.

It’s an impactful listen: Episode 792: When To Leave. I wish this narrative and the real-life impacts of these draconian laws were a more mainstream part of the national conversation.

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u/mercenaryarrogant 5d ago

This is exactly what they want.

Republicans in multiple states are enacting political terrorism into laws in an blatant effort to get educators, physicians, administrators, artists, psychologists, musicians, graduate assistants writers, journalists, scientists and many others that lean heavily democrat to pack up and leave to states that actually believe in the freedom these republicans lawmakers only pretend to love.

Check out political affiliation by occupation and it’s clear that’s why they’re going after these groups. They can’t win future elections without making battleground states places many aren’t going to want to live.

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u/erinn1986 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Divorce your Republican husbands. They do not have your best interests at heart.

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u/KindAwareness3073 5d ago

Idaho joins the race for the top of the "shithole state" list with a strong entry. TX and FL feeling pressured.


u/ITwerkForALiving 5d ago

Mississippi ain't worried.


u/A-Quick-Turtle 5d ago

Does Mississippi even have the ability to be aware?


u/langis_on 5d ago

Mississippi fails the mirror test

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u/padizzledonk 5d ago

Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana are the Big 3 to beat this year....Who is gonna come out on top for the triple crown of "Worst Healthcare, Worst Public Education and Worst Income" this year?

Tune in to find out!

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u/Mizzlu78 5d ago

Alabama is comfortable in its spot.

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u/BroForceOne 5d ago

As long as infants die after they are born and not before, this is acceptable by conservative standards.

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u/DragonPup 5d ago

If anyone was wondering how red Idaho's government is...

The Republican governor got 60% of the vote (the Dem got 20%)
The state house is 59/70 Republican
The state senate is 28/35 Republicans
The US House Reps are both Republican
The US Senate are both Republicans

The people of Idaho are getting the government they overwhelmingly voted for, and not all of them will survive the consequences of it.


u/moocat55 5d ago

Look, it's the obvious fallout from very, very stupid anti abortion legislation

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u/kbrown36 5d ago

Oh so they legalized 9 month abortions there?


u/CAESTULA 5d ago

Just watch, soon they'll criminalize losing the baby, claiming the inability to get to a hospital in time constitutes 'neglect and child abuse, resulting in death.'


u/ConfessingToSins 5d ago

There's been people suggesting this in Florida actually. They've been talking about how it a woman miscarries she should be punished or jailed because "that can't happen unless the woman does something wrong/evil"

It's insane. Southern states are off the deep end now in a way that they haven't been since before we had to hang a war to put them back in line.

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u/whiskeyjane45 5d ago

This happened in my city a few years ago. Labor and delivery was not open for three years. There were no OBs in town. Now L&D is open and the hospital has its own OBs instead of relying on the private practices.

At the same time, all of the pediatricians, save one left. Cook children's from the city opened a clinic but they do not accept medicaid. The one pediatrician is leaving for another town. In the four years since all the OBs and pediatricians mass quit at the same time, no other pediatricians have come, save the clinic. But this is a low income area. The schools in the surrounding small towns are all title 1 schools. A lot of people are on medicaid here, so the clinic is only helpful to some people

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